http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/05/a123_announces_.html
Keep debating endlessly, or mass adoption of these new plugin vehicle battery packs?
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Why A123 mass production now?!?
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Re: Why A123 mass production now?!?
by
Anonymous
on Fri 04 May 2007 12:10 AM CDT | Permanent Link
The problem with the EV-1 was partly that it was never available for sale, only lease. If it had been available for sale, probably the people with the money and the environmental conciousness would have started things rolling . And as a new product gains acceptance and is improved it will slowly penetrate the mainstream market more and the price coming slowly down.
Look at how cell phones started off. They had big heavy batteries and ran for a fairly short time, but people still bought them because it was the new thing and had certain advantages. As they became smaller and cheaper they continued to penetrate the market and become accepted, and at the same time the products continued to get better and better. Now we take them for granted. Even people who were against mobile phones initially probably have one now. Electric cars haven't had much of a chance yet. Not much has been available, so you can't get anything even if you have the cash. But that's starting to change. And they can only get better over time. You might have something that does say 50 miles to a charge now, but pretty soon it will be 100, 150, 200 miles... There may not charging stations around right now, but that can be changed pretty quickly and easily. The infrastructure is already there. Electricity is more widely available around the country than gas stations. You can't fill up your gas tank at home or at a friends place, but you can get electricity to charge an EV. Re: Re: Why A123 mass production now?!?
That's true electricity for recharge is available almost everywhere. Except out on the road somewhere when your batteries run low. With a backup generator that is not a problem.
And with backup all an electric car has to cover is the average mileage per trip to get fuel consumption down to 10% on average. This pack provides almost twice the average trip of 23 miles. And the roughly 6kwh required for that charge of the A123 pack is easy to get fairly quickly from almost any electric power source. But to recharge a 200 mile EV at regular home or business wattage would take hours even with quick charge batteries. the high current required for really quick charging of these bigger batteries in a pure EV would need to come from special cables, plugs, and electric systems. special systems installed in homes, at work, at schools, malls, that may happen eventually. For now a 6kwh pack backed up with liquid fuel available at gas stations is more practical, and much cheaper. And it still would average 10% of present fuel use. Waiting for pure EVs to tackle the problem of GHGs and oil wars is not an option. we must act yesterday! That is why I favor smaller battery packs in EVs and backup generators. I would hope that better backup generators, like the solid oxide (multi) fuel cell/microturbine that run at triple the efficiency of iCE backup generators would be available soon. And that with mass production and soaring market demand much better, cheaper batteries would extend battery only range to say 60 miles very soon. the beauty of this design is that the basic electric car can have components like batteries and backup generators replaced easily as better technology is mass produced. No need to buy a new car every few years. Electric cars will go 500,000 miles because of the much simpler, more reliable drivetrain. In fact conversion of existing vehicles would be fairly cheap and easy enough to really speed up mass adoption of EVs. Re: Why A123 mass production now?!?
by
Solar John
on Fri 04 May 2007 10:47 AM CDT | Permanent Link
With a big enough PV system, it should soon be possible to drive entirely with free power from the sun. Because this is not good for "Big Oil" and Big Coal", or the politicians who benefit from them, someone is going to squash this.
John http://solarjohn.blogspot.com Re: Re: Why A123 mass production now?!?
Yep John, in fact I am estimating that around 1200 kwh per year ought to be enough juice to charge up the average EV with a 40 mile range between charges.
Two cars double the kwhs. With cogeneration providing heating and geothermal heating/cooling and very efficient appliances, computers, tVs, lights, another 1200 kwh would power a home. That would take around 1.5 kw of combined solar, wind, and or biogas home generation that generated power 33% of the time. In many areas solar is great half the year, wind the other half, biogas is a great backup all year. A 20 by 20 solar installation, 12 foot diameter wind machine, and or a 2kw biogas powered generator would be effective in many locations. Depending on wind, solar, and biomass resources in the particular area, these systems could be skewed to produce more or less of the total individually. Someone with a big garden or access to wood chips, grass clippings, manure, leaves could get most of their power from biogas powered generation. In very sunny locations a solar system would provide enough alone, like wise for wind in very windy locations. This is all only awaiting mass production to become widely available in cost effective form. Are the powers that be, oil and fossil fuel monpolists and thweir government cronies delaying mass production? Yes, like their very existence depended upon that delay. After all, it does. Trackbacks
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Because A123 is proven in power tools, lighter, quickest charging, and now apparently racing into mass production. Could they falter now? Yes, but they look like the clear leader. independent testing would be nice too. Maybe NREL ought to step up?
Altairnano is going for pure electric, that might happen in the future. But until some quick recharging "gas" station infrastructure is built out, mass adoption remains problematic. Fleet vehicles only. And individual owners willing to accept the mileage limitations.
That was the problem with the EV-1, if GM had cut the battery pack in half and added a lightweight backup generator. The world would be different now. No need for oil war, GM would be gaining market share, renewable energy to feed these batteries would be on a fast track.
I like firefly, if it costs a quarter of what the A123 battetry does? I would see firefly pulling ahead at first, especially since overnight recharge is good enough for now. But as A123 comes down in cost with mass production? The car can be recharged at work, school, shopping centers in a few minutes. A short range charge is much quicker than a full 200 mile charge in an Altair vehicle. And available with lower wattage, standard plugin technology.
Whatever battery is used, if it beats the A123 performance and price, great! But this proves electric cars with backup generation can solve our oil energy problems.
Some chemical innovation is needed for zinc/air to become rechargeable in the vehicle. Doing it electrically and mechanically in the vehicle with today's technology is inefficient and impractical.
If a chemical catalyst and device could be invented that would easily produce zinc pellets out of dissolved zinc oxide inside the fuel cell with electric recharge? Great!!
But this continuing public/political debate at the expense of action has to stop. The voters need to send a clear message to the pols right now.
Convert government vehicle fleets to plugin using these batteries now and offer tax incentives to get others to do it. Build out renewable energy to charge the batteries in the government fleets and offer tax incentives for other to do that.
Tax dollars need to be used to get mass production and adoption of this real solution inexpensive enough for consumers to afford. 4 dollar gas will kill the few remaining good jobs left. This constitues an oil monopoly economic attack on our standard of living.
Do it now, run for office on that platform. No more lying and bribe taking from ethanol and other scammers. Which side of the gas pump are they on? The consumer's side where we are? Or the side of oil monopolists?
We need leadership that is on our side of the gas pump. That realize what 4, 5, 6 dollar gas (and climate disaster)does to US.
If government fleets are converted and tax incentives offered, other companies will race to get a share of the huge market. Pushing A123 to keep it's technological lead by lowering cost. Remember the personal computer chip! Price per unit of computing power dropped exponentially.
The same could happen with plugin technology.